Forum - View topicDouble standards
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I guess this has been sort of resolved but I'll add my two cents.
Tony K's conduct seems perfectly fine to me. If the opening post is bad but they think the topic is still worth while then by all means leave it. Obviously though the poor post needs to be addressed though so a warning is appropriate. I found it sort of odd that TK later went back and locked it acting like he had said nothing initially. It was perfectly reasonable to lock though so I don't have a problem with it. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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In your own words you asked to be made a mod. Yeah, I'm sure you'll remind us that they asked you first and you declined and then you asked again later. Whatever. The end result was that you asked for moderator powers because you didn't want to wait to see what some other moderator was going to do and when. You wanted direct control over immediate action. Again, that's not something I'm making up, that was in your own words. Nobody pushed it upon you; you asked for it.
Your own posts do a far better job of demonstrating your true character than any outside insinuation ever could.
Look who's talking. Before you became a moderator you were a lot more fair in your debating. Since then, well, just look at your post. It's really going overboard and I think even you should be able to see that. Seriously, I can barely stand to read what you posted here and this is coming from a moderator who claims people should be fair in their debating lest they be seen as intentional flamers. Perhaps it's time to rise to your own high standards. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I beg your pardon? I don't recall this, but I'm sure you'll be happy to point to the exact post where this was detailed. Or did you mean this post? If so, then your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.
I'm glad you see things my way. Your opinion matters to me in direct proportion to its intrinsic value. I know the degree of universal respect you command in this forum for your ability to get along with everybody and never say anything offensive or unreasonable...
See my previous comment. - abunai |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Now now daxomni, there are other avenues to berate abunai. Private Messages for example. Please don't derail the thread with a sudden attack like that.
Here's a thread with a double standard I thought was interesting. The way Keonyn treats daxomni and DomFortress differently is perplexing. Here are the posts - in their entirety - as they currently stand:
Note that daxomni posted twenty-eight minutes before DomFortress' first post. Now, this was not a case of two equally belligerent people who were fighting each other but only one got punished. It is however a case where both users contributed apparently little of value (I say "apparently" because I didn't see the thread before Keonyn edited DomFortress' posts). And yet, only one user was punished. Now yes, it may be that DomFortress was the worse offender, that is very possible. It may be that his/her posts were the only ones that were reported. But daxomni clearly broke Rule #3, so Keonyn overlooking this is - as I said before - perplexing. Keonyn must have been viewing the thread at some point to modify DomFortress' posts, so how did they miss daxomni's post? Now, that unfortunately isn't all. There was another person in that thread who wasn't following Rule #3, and that was the OP, thewrll.
Okay, I'll admit that their post wasn't awful (though it has been done to death already), but it was curious to see Keonyn make no move to remind them to improve. I mean, I've seen in the past better OP's that were deleted by other Moderators, so that is another point of difference in the style and standards between Moderators. This wasn't rant against Keonyn (or even a rant at all), just me being all confused and puzzled-like. As a Kiwi I believe in fairness, in that if I screw up I should get punished, but if someone else screws up the same way then they should also get punished. Having such differing styles and levels of leniency between Moderators - and even with respect to a single Moderator's posts - grates on me terribly. It does not engender much confidence in the system now, if the level of your punishment depends on who you are and which Mod you get. Thanks for reading. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Just to interject: this isn't accurate, but I can see why it would seem so. thewrll was reminded in another of his threads, even to the point in stating his threads were deleted for the disregard of the rules. A lesson, as of this writing, still unlearned. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Trust me, I don't treat daxomni with kid gloves or anything of the like at all. I can assure you, I show no favoritism there.
I focused on Domfortresses comments not just because they weren't contributing to the discussion, but because they were outright inflammatory and insulting to the original poster, and that was my concern at that time. As pointless and useless as dax's addition was, it wasn't what was reported. What was reported was Dom's flames and attacks against the OP, particularly with a viciousness that isn't going to be tolerated. To be quite honest, I was a bit too distracted by the flames and insults of another user that I just completely missed daxomni's comment. Had it been reported and I had seen it, I would have dealt with it just the same, I assure you. At any rate, I've dealt with the comment in question, but I have noticed that up until the point I dealt with it it had still not been reported. When we get a report and click on it, it goes straight to the post that was reported. If I have to read the whole thread to find the nature of the violation I will, but if it is as plain as day as Dom's all out attack on the OP was, then I deal with it and move on. Besides, I saw the users original post as borderline. It was lacking, but he did explain his reasoning to a small, minimal degree. Since we mods are not a collective mind, I was not aware that this user had already been dealt with for such a post before as I hadn't seen those reports or those posts. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Fair enough. I didn't hold anything against you personally, it was just a weird situation that I was curious about. And you're right, I should have put my money where my mouth was and reported daxomni's post. I can also see how you might miss a lesser violation of the rules if there was a full-out attack on someone.
I do suppose it is unavoidable that there will be - not a discrepancy exactly - but a difference in the way various Moderators handle varying situations. I do realise that you people don't come off some sort of robotic assembly line with pre-programmed instructions on how to deal with every situation. As long as you guys (and gals?) do your best, I suppose I have no right to complain. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Yup, it's no different than if you fly by a cop doing 42 in a 35 or something like that. Some might not even bother to pull you over, some will but just give you a warning or tell you to slow down, and then others will be go all out and write you a ticket for that. There's always going to be some level of discretion involved, but as such, I am most definitely willing to discuss or explain my actions if anyone wishes to do so (provided people are civil of course, heh).
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Actually, even though I wasn't one who brought this up I want to say I really appreciate that. It's nice to know that people can ask about this kind of thing (civilly) without having to worry about you getting offended or defensive. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16939 |
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By now anyone who has been here more then 3 months knows if I have an opinion I will post it. I do not shy away from voicing my opinion be it for better or worse. I do not try to cause problems but I do not shy away from posting my thoughts. As such over the years I have had run ins with EVERY single moderator and admin who has been here since I joined. If I felt they were being unfair I have no problems PM'ing them about it. I also tend to do that first over making a public thread to bitch and whine when often the issue can be settled through PM's directly. Abunai is a perfect example and he can attest to our many...spirited PM's we've shared heh. So can Tony, Keonyn, Zac, Selenta, Nagisa (if he even remembers lol) etc. Yet in EVERY SINGLE CASE when I PM'ed one of them they all responded. They all took the time to respond and not one of them simply ran to Tempest to report me and avoid responding. If ANYONE has an issue with a mod just PM them. Too often I have seen users bitch and whine about the "double" standards of the mods while applying their own towards the mods, and never taking the time to send one PM at all to try and resolve things. They will not ban you for voicing your unhappiness to them via PM as long as you refrain from "OMG you should die you f'ing dillweed raggeeeeeee" comments. I am living proof of that. I've even had the guts/stupidity to PM Tempest himself to complain about issues. He too responded to my complaints and grievances and even apologized for taking longer to do so due to being so busy. I have openly disagreed with almost all of them at some point or another but I will say every single one has taken the time to address the concerns I laid before them. More of you should do the same. You'd be surprised how much more easily many issues would be resolved with them. As for the mods....inconsistency, remember they are individuals. Each one has their own interpretation of teh rules and how they choose to enforce them. Some, like Tony, change over time. In fact right now Nagisa and Tony seemed to have switched personalities completely heh. It is simply unreasonable to expect every single one of them to enforce the rules the same. They are also volunteers and do this AFTER their normal day job. We all have bad days and can post as such. I can assure you from personal experience if one ever does blatantly cross a line Tempest will act on it and deal with them in the staff section/privately. He has told me as much and I have no reason to doubt his word. Plus in one instance I know for a fact he did as the individual contacted me and asked why I did not go to him first with my issue. Thus further proving my point that in many cases it would be advantageous of people to just PM the mod in question they have an issue with. Or PM another mod and ask them to bring it up in the staff section. |
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daxomni
Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Are you denying that you asked to become a moderator or are you merely side-stepping the issue by trying to refocus the discussion on where you admitted it?
It took me awhile to even remember who you are, but then I realized you're apparently still butthurt over the last time I challenged something you blurted out sans demonstrable perception. You've been here plenty long enough to figure out that what gets reported gets acted upon. Sitting on a post that has personally offended your fragile sensibilities won't get it deleted and telling someone to send PM's becomes nothing but backseat moderating when you're too hypocritical to send one yourself. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16939 |
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I think it's clear DTM and I have no love for each other...but I have to defend him here. You go on about abunai's behavior and telling him he should own up to his own standards and then a few posts later flame a poster claiming he's just butt hurt. If you want to sling comments like that, and flame another poster who was actually being polite (and IMO that is damn polite for DTM as he had no flames himself) you really have no right to be telling anyone else what standards they should live up to Dax. Unless it's a case of do as I say not as I do.
As for abunai becoming a mod I actually confronted him with this exact same issue 2 years ago when he became one. I told him he was doing it for the wrong reasons and basically complaining about reporting a post and having to wait for action like the rest of us. The fact is he was asked himself to be one already. As he told me he simply more or less made it clear to Tempest he could fulfill the role of one if Tempest still wanted him as a moderator. That is essentially what he told me directly. I cannot remember word for word as it was almost 2 years ago now from the PM conversations he and I shared on it. Regardless of if he asked or not the second time though if Tempest did not want him as one and feel he was reliable or suitable as one he would not be one. So I am wondering why does it matter if once he did have the time to be a mod he told Tempest that and offered his services. What point is there in that fact? Plus this was 2 years ago, seems a bit late to be complaining about it now if you ask me. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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daxomni: Alright, I think you've derailed the thread enough. This isn't the place to make a seemingly unprovoked and quite forceful attack on abunai (or any other user). Nor is the place to lash out at someone (i.e. me) trying to give you friendly advice and accuse me of being hurt over an event that happened ages ago and which no longer bothers me.
I don't think it is necessarily hypocritical to not report a post. However, because you have so rudely spurned my goodwill and constructive criticism I will report you - have already reported you in fact - for rudeness and attempts to derail the thread. This is not the place to restart vendettas or open old wounds, especially when the other side has forgiven and forgotten. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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They're correct dax, this isn't your personal grudge match, which is what you're turning this in to. Whether abunai asked to become a mod or was offered the position is irrelevant. Regardless of how he became a mod doesn't justify treating him any differently.
Your response to dtm42 was also way off the mark, and was frankly inflammatory and unnecessary. It's ironic that you're sitting here calling abunai out on his behavior by demonstrating how much worse you are than him. Is this just a case of pot meets kettle? Regardless, it doesn't belong here, and if you want to wage some personal war against abunai than you can wage it through more personal channels. It's sad I even need to threaten a thread lock here, but that's exactly what's going to happen if this goes any further. |
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daxomni
Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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I have no specific grudge against abunai, I merely want him to treat others the way he expects them to treat him. That seems pretty reasonable to me. It's true that abunai didn't direct any of this toward me originally, and apparently that gave the impression that my reply was "unprovoked." Fair enough, but that doesn't change my perception that he was stepping way over the line in this thread. The problem, as I see it, is that feedback is primarily welcomed from people who would almost never volunteer anything truly critical. As a practical matter you have to assume that most of the criticism is going to come from people who aren't your friends and buddies. That's just the reality of the life. As for dtm, I really and truly couldn't care less. He's free to report me as much and as often as he wants. That should be enough for anyone who's not holding their own grudge. |
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